2. And if USA made the job in the Pacific, in Europe it was USSR, for WW2. For me personally Thats where the .357 SIG comes into play. If a guy rushes you with a knife and you shoot him with a few rounds of 22lr in the chest he'll probably die. The 45 makes bigger hole while 357 punches deeper. Like the logo of a Very Familiar training range: The Ruger LC380 is her favorite. Only thing I would add is my home defense pistol fights me to my riflesince pistol rounds are weak compared to a good old 5.56. I don't care what you carry, it being a 22lr or 50AE, just make sure you carry something. you a link to reset your password. They and FN took care of the capacity issue. Your 45 and your 9mm will both go clear through the walls in your house. The 9mm Luger has a muzzle velocity of 1,120 feet-per-second (fps), while the .357 Magnum touts a muzzle velocity of 1,240 fps, despite the fact that its bullet is 34 grains heavier. The Federal 147gr Hydra-Shok JHP had a total velocity average difference of only 54fps across barrel lengths and a total loss of 5.5%. You can think of several reasons for this better than me probably. That is good. Their testing shows seven 9mm rounds that equal or exceed 500 ft lb, with 4 hitting between 511 and 540 ft lb. One thing I do like about 9mm ammo that wasn't mentioned is the weight especially in bulk. Although both mass and velocity contribute to the muzzle energy, the muzzle energy is proportional to the mass while proportional to the square of the velocity. I own both calibers with two semi autos chambered for each. I freeze. At one time the 10mm was in consideration for the FBI. I don't think a ATTACKER/HOME INVADER will know the difference between a 9mm or a 45cal to the HEAD, NECK or a double tap in the CHEST!! Copyright 2023 Pew Pew Media, Inc. All rights reserved. Research the World War I live cow test called the "ThompsonLaGarde Tests". When you said buy both at the end I was thinking .45 for carry and 9mm for backup. I solved the argument of the 9mm vs the 45acp I have a 10mm and it's the best of both worlds, I am a Competition shooter I have shock sigsauer 9 mm Very unimpressed first of all Sigg Sire that I have the frame is bent I am really leaning toward the dog in a .45 it also comes in 9mm though for who likes that. The bullet doesn't matter if you can't shoot it with some accuracy. However, it's very reasonable to say that without American manufacturing, production, and agriculture the United Kingdom would have either fallen directly to the Germans or more likely would have been starved into submission. Thanks for your opinion, its valid. Have a place to barricade yourself in, in mind beforehand and think about what you would do yourself if it happened to you. For me, it's an SR1911, an old 4x4 Toyota with a stick, and a Pedulla my choices on all 3 are exactly the same i thought that was oddly coincidental since all 3 are not the most common choices. -- For 9mm, some who prefer high capacity and easier recoil, I understand. The switched to the 45 because they needed something that transferred more energy to the target to knock them down. It is inherently easy to remove from safe to fire and the safety is constructed well. Corresponding energies ranged from 228 ft-lbs to 345 ft-lbs. The entrance and exit wound will be bigger (with a good hollow point). Before 1911, soldiers hit with a 9mm were still advancing even if mortally wounded. When discussing the FBI and their conclusion that agents shoot better with the 9 mm, all I can say is look at their shooters. Its the perfect grab-and-go handgun to fire in close quarters where recoil wont pose such a problem. I have both I like the 45 but I love the 9 mm, Agreed. ) or https:// means youve safely connected to the .gov website. I will always favor 45 Acp over 9mm. (Adding my own word here: in other words, once a bullet hits the nearly 2000 FPS mark, temporary wound cavity matters) Personally, I prefer carrying a small frame gun, so 9mm works best for me. I've shot that in Battlefield where all the ballistics are fully verified by experts because it's a computer game. I also own a glock 19 as well. The matter of fact is that the three most commonly carried/used semi automatic calibers (9mm, .40 s&w, .45 acp) are all equally quite weak compared to shotgun and rifle rounds. I compete with them all. But my favorate is 45acp. For resources, I recommend Rory Miller as he dedicated a chapter in his book to the freeze, Marc MacYoung how to avoid violence in general, and Tim Larkin. The important things here are Bullet Type, and bullet placement. CONNECT WITH US Take all this with a pinch of salt, I'm no expert. The truth is both velocity and mass increase penetration just as both increase energy, but this is what we have to realize. My non-silenced weapons are 9mm my silenced weapons are .45. its a good idea to review any state and local laws before buying a 9mm if youre set on having a 15+1 capacity gun. Saying Islamic Terrorist attacks were really just another "gun violence incident" is a vile misrepresentation of reality. Great piece. The only advantage the mode 59 has is the rear sight to adjustable for both windage and elevation . http://www.ballistics101.com/45_acp.php For HD, I have a 12gauge but my G19 is fine. With half coming in under 400 ft lb. e.g. My practice is Steel Challenge for about 14 years + USPSA and Zombie. If anything, it's the opposite. With a revolver if you get a dud its no big deal. FBI dropped 0.40 not because 9mm comes even close to it just affirmative action that's all it is. Any reference to "stopping power" in regards to the aforementioned rounds is laughable. I carry a high capacity compact 9mm (P365XL with the magguts 14+1 mags) or a 357 Also keep in mind that the study, and their recommendation, was based off of the assumption that they were going to be equipping thousands of people with the new weapons. That is literally the definition of subsonic : below a certain speed ( the speed of sound). Stop trying to justify taking effective weapons away for less effective ones. Bigger holes are better ones. I don't own a .45 (except a Pietta .45 Long Colt cowboy gun I target shoot in the mountains- I love it), but my son does have a couple of 1911's which he loves and says they are fairly easy to conceal carry. It offers a larger magazine capacity given a similarly sized firearm, And its compact nature makes it easier to carry, especially when concealed carry, Not to mention, the 9mm brings less recoil, making it an easier gun to handle especially for beginners, While the answer to this is up to debate, one thing is certain: higher muzzle velocity does equal, Unfortunately, this benefit may be completely. I was a die hard .45 fan but when I got the concealed license, it just wasn't comfortable to carry. Based on the data above, it appears that almost all loads tested got their greatest percentage increase in velocity up until about a 7" barrel length. In fact, unlike the other calibers in this study, over half of the 9mm rounds from the 1800 bodies involved in shootings were FMJ. Or is it just a complex but unimportant piece of data, meant for people who are seriously interested in (and can mentally tolerate) the complex physics of shooting? Funny thing though, the administrators weren't the ones facing the enemy and while the 38LC was easy to shoot (basically a 9mm Luger ballistic wise), it did not stop determined attackers so the Army re-issued the 45 Long Colt. Try firing one off indoors in the dark with no ear protection. As you noted, better an underpowered sidearm than a sharp finger. If either 5.56 x 45 or 7.62 x 51 are using hollow points or soft points the damage will be greater. Most situations are going to involve you protecting/defending yourself with others in the background. He bought 'bigger is better' and eventually converted down to 9mm. Loved the part about the advancements in ammunition. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Had I not already had an investment in 9mm equipment and ammo I would have considered the 45. Muzzle Energy: 369 lb/ft (230gr at 850FPS) 304 lb/ft (124gr at 1050FPS) . (I carry .40 Smith & Wesson or a .45 Auto pistol with concealed carry.) The Federal 115-grain 9mm ammo has a muzzle velocity of 1,180 fps, while the larger bullet is propelled at 1,000 fps. All the rest, including +p loads, came in under that number. Second, our judges demand, that each shot has to be beforethought = you can shoot perp once and then you have to evaluate, if he stoped his attack. The rest of your post I am 100% onboard with! You can not spell and have no idea what punctuation is. All will work to some level of effectiveness if you can hit your target. As you can see, there is a huge difference in bullet velocities from caliber to caliber. 4. Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst case escenario. With that said I can control the amount of muzzle rise on my .45's much better than a 9mm. LEOs have completely different considerations. To say that the 9mm is justbas oowerful than the .44, is totslly nonsense. In my under experienced mind, you don't take 4 .45 rounds to the upper body and suffer life threatening injuries.you just plain and simply die. A 9mm rounds ballistics depend upon which of the three common bullet weights its equipped with: Bear in mind that these numbers vary by manufacturer. Having said that, in my humble opinion, I prefer the big slow moving .45. Would I even ever use it? I mean, the FBI testing protocol is just like Mil-Specit sounds cool til you actually know what it is. Thank You! This isnt a pride of ownership statement either. What seemed like moments after making my calls to get .45, I was again on the line with several of the same fine companies to acquire some 9mm. In a gunfight, every round which is fired, by either side, is potentially lethal. People bandy about theories of using bird shot to 00, because here on a forum it's a safe environment. -- Ask countless military and police and they will tell you 9mm is not always enough. If they are still coming you have to be able to keep shooting. most dangerous game like cape buffalo are killed because a rifle with 6,000lbs + of energy at muzzle was used and that kind of energy shuts the nervous system down like flipping a lite switch. Use what you can use the best. I also agree about freezing and adrenaline and tunnel vision and all that. Force is mass times acceleration squared. The 9mm NATO is equivalent to a slightly overpressure variant of the standard 9mm Luger. Here it is for those of us who have long since forgotten: KE = 0.5 m v2 where m = mass of object v = speed of object Actually, we ALL have a soul, but only TRUE Christians (born again believers) have a spirit. It tracks the movement of the bullet in zero wind conditions, and out to 100 yards. We were issued S&W .38 cal wheel guns. JNB. If you want knock down power take up boxing . (Pew Pew Eric) Keep the awesome info coming, I love your emails and love your site! If you're a professional you should hit what your shooting at, or don't carry. If the wound channel is indeed the same, then the 45 is the inferior round in all regards except home defense. I carry a Shield or a Glock 26. I know better than that. I wrap my grips with stretch adhesive tape to give me a custom grip. Then retreat after spraying. Totally agree the new technology of the self defense bullets puts the 9mm in the same class as the 45acp, but I still prefer the 45acp but I carry the 9. The upward recoil maybe lesser but 9mm has a twisting recoil motion. The LaserLyte is bore set low to compensate up to 300 yds. Option two; You select a certain ammunition that has been proved to not fully penetrate. For the United Kingdom, after Dunkirk, the UK lost basically everything. There is a difference between an LEO and a civilian. No more mild steel targets to shoot at, it completely deformed This, unfortunately takes time to accomplish. If we had no guns, we would still be part of the UK (and I for one think the world would be worse off for it). My nightstand pistol is a Glock 41, but I would only grab it if one of my AK47s stopped firing. I went to work on the Police Dept. I bought a 9mm because during this last ammo shortage my ammo was hard to find but I could get the 9mm no problem. At the end of the day though, a bigger bullet is theoretically better. Now that being said the 9mm has its place in a high performance situation. They are long-distance rifle competitors and long-distance hunters. Or you could end up in prison. Whereas the 00 might outright kill them. This really isn't the place for an in depth spiritual discussion, but your comment was interesting. If you're really intent on a firearmgo bigger. Its maximum pressure is 36,500 psi, which is four percent higher than SAAMIs spec for the more common 9mm Luger. I like both & depending on where I'm going, how long I'll be gone, what I'm wearing & how I'm feeling makes my choice for me. The velocity of the bullet is a more important determinant of muzzle energy. Obviously we are talking relative speeds between bullets, not relative speeds between a car and a bullet. I am still open to 9mm thats why I was considering the sig but I do love the style and extra safety features of the kimber. They resent that Europeans don't know or understand America or Americans, yet Europeans seem to have this superior attitude anyway. Physics boss: 9mm has more penetration and energy. You say bullet technology has caused the 9mm to catch up with the .45acp. My grandfather gave it to me back in the early 1990s before he died. The more energy, the more potential for damage. Many shooters like to have the .45 ACP for home defense. It feels good in the hand, is built like a tank, and definitely a 'cool' looking piece. Instagram When I was taking a defensive hand gun course( took it multiple times ) at Front site all of my instructors had 45's. And full metal jacket 5.56 bullets are not more effective than 7.62 x 51 using full metal jacket from what I have read. Bye, troll. This is America, not the UK. Having two at hand, would beat reloading, like they did in the old days with two or three guns in the belt. However i must say I have quite a bit of arthritic damage in both "My husband doesn't like the sound of loud guns"..For Christ sakes, get him a pellet gun. I am not a Glock guy by any means, but ammo is ammo and I always find tested results like these to be useful. But if you hurl the ball as fast as you can, like a fastball pitch, it will have a trajectory that is closer to a straight line. I'm citing experience, something you clearly lack. A ATTACKER/HOME INVADER will not know the difference between a 9mm & a 45cal to the HEAD, NECK or a DOUBLE TAP to the CHEST!! Bullet Weight: 124gr. I may not always be there. The domestic manufacture of war material was not remotely able to resupply the entire UK armed forces. You follow the directions on the can. I'm carrying a 45, and it was because of the lesser penetration that I decided on it. They are not an ideal carry gun, howyever. Ultimately, both calibers are great to have. Your personal guarantee is meaningless. Not only are the Lehigh loads the most visually appealing due to their artful machining, but they ranked the highest in uniformity and had some of the lowest SD (standard deviation) of anything tested. Does it create better expansion or significant penetration? The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Fortunate enough to equip your firearm with a suppressor? I love your Pro / Con's of each. Theyre rounds, they go boom, they go flying down the barrel. It is always situational awareness no matter what. No need to buy specialized rounds. A 7" barrel with a 7" suppressor would still give an overall length of 14 inches, so going up to 10" for a little extra velocity would put you at just about 17" with a suppressor, which is still going to handle better than a 16" barrel, along with the benefits of being suppressed. Regarding "damage" - both have about the same amount of energy, both leave indistinguishable wound tracks in pliable human tissue - we're not clay. In the debate of 9mm vs 45ACP, I choose 357 magnum and 10mm. Adrenaline is not the deterrent you make it out to be, some people actually perform better when "amped up" so maybe YOU would be would be useless but you have no right to comment on anyone but yourself. Adam, Eve (before they sinned), and the Lord Jesus Christ (Who never sinned.) However, there might not be enough time for all that. So .45 is the guarantee to punch big holes, with 9 you have to have the right conditions. Agreed. When comparing a 115 grain 9mm round to a .45 ACP bullet that weighs twice as much, that difference is so substantial that the energy foot pounds can be nearly equal. Quicker on target and more accurate shots with a less powerful cartridge will usually defeat slower on target and less accurate shots from a more powerful cartridge in a gunfight. In a 6 feet or less fire fight, if I have not subdued my attacker in 7 rounds. . I've taken black bear with both the 44 mag. Which is best? Weve built dozens of ARs and well cover all the best AR-15 upgrades such as handguards, triggers, BCGs, gas blocks, and more. If you need your first shot to count more than anything, then why aren't you carrying a .357 magnum? You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. The link is entitled to be wrong lol, the capacity of 9mm the distance and all is great . I have good friends who shoot .45 and we all get along just fine. The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge holds bullets that have a diameter of .452 inches (11.5mm) so it is slightly larger than the 9mm (.355 inch bullets). A direct hit to the heart or aortic arch can take as long as 8 seconds to result in unconsciousness. I decided to further streamline my test by using three pistols from the same manufacturer. Time matters. i agree and i hear that every day. 357 magnum: the ammunition options are superior for your particular circumstance. At home, 12ga and .45 ACP. The truth is somewhere in the middle; From weekend plinkers to elite rifle competitors, understanding the basics of muzzle velocity is an essential part of gun ownership and marksmanship. Where do I stand on the 9mm vs .45ACP debate? Still, nothing like the feel of a nice heavy, ..45. customized to your liking as your arsenal 'anchor'. Less recoil , good penetration, good follow up for stopping a robber etc. Just feel more secure with that big fat slow round. My 45ACP at 12 rounds was well on the way to chewing it apart. The 9mm is ballistically superior to the .38 Special, there's no doubt about that. One of the BAD things about FIREARMS in AMERICA is the DEMOCRATIC LIBERALS!! The same advancements that the 9mm has received, so did the .45. Whatever floats your boat. Here we go agin, 9mm vrs 45, If you look up the Buckeye Firearms Association article comparing calibers, 9mm fails to incapacitate 13% of the time while .45 ACP fails to incapacitate 14%. Youtube, ABOUT US I really enjoy carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40 gr hollow points. Some modern 45 jhp loads are creating wound channels on par with 12 ga foster slugs. My 9mm compact carry S&W Shield semi-auto has a ported barrel. The G30 is my EDC, the G36 is in my car's glove compartment. Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. The single action 1911 still offers the most accurate platform. So, I disagree with the Taylor KO index . It just depends on what I am wearing and how much concealment I want. FNX 45 T is my bedstand gun with 15 +1, RMR and 1000 lumen Surefire. The 919mm Parabellum (also known as 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Luger or simply 9mm) is a rimless, tapered firearms cartridge . This is a valuable consideration to those who want one load across the board for their carry gun and duty rig. The average 9mm hollowpoint increased in energy by just 50 foot-pounds. I had a Beretta 9mm issued to me when I was 11H in the Army National Guard and it was ok, but I prefer my Gold Cup over that pistol. There is a plethora of loads in both 9mm and .45 that do a better job of expanding and out perform the FBI test rounds in nearly every way. I have pistols chambered in .22lr, 9mm Luger, .40 S7W, 357 SIG, and .45 ACP. The angle was about 45 degrees because I feared complete penetration if fired 90 degrees. They had a narcotic in them to keep them advancing until they expired. So, if you only have a few seconds to fire, then you may not discharge any more rounds from the 9mm handgun than you did from a.45 ACP handgun. Yes, 45ACP with defensive loads and .40 S&W with defensive loads do more terminal damage than 9mm with defensive loads. Returns Policy. These people think the 9mm shoots magic bullets and the 45 is just slow and heavy. Its essentially a 9mm magnum. I soon will be adding a Colt Commander in 9mm to my cc option. I had thousands .45 230 grains hardball and some +Ps hallow points with my standard 1911 when I tested my friend's full size 9mm. As a trauma room doctor pointed out in one article I was reading, bullets that leave the body are less effective than ones that stay in. American lend-lease foodstuffs accounted for over 10% of Britain's over-all food supply during the war. The only drawback is that it is not super concealable for every day, but I havent looked into a shoulder holster. I also read several years ago about a young lad at home on his own, who had essentially been tasked with defending the home if anyone tried to break in. If there's bearsI'd go with bear spray first. I'll be shooting faster when I'm more confident that I can hit the target (the closer the distance; the bigger the target; the easier to handle, more accurate the gun). How can the 9mm "have the same wound tracks as a .45 ACP" when the .45 expands to an inch diameter? Theres no doubt that the .45 ACP is a classic handgun thats not going anywhere in the foreseeable future, but it doesnt outperform the 9mm. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. With all calibers, try to match your bullet to your purpose. 45 ACP Ballistics I think That's exactly why the 9 is so popular. While it cannot be argued that Americans did not single-handedly win the war or that we contributed the most warfighters or took the most losses, it is also safe to say that without American intervention it is entirely probable that the UK would have fallen and the USSR would not have been able to push the Germans back. He didn't even have a BRUISE where the 45cal bullet hit him!! No looks or ballistics tests are going to help you there. A myth that TV and movies have given the world is that American warfighters won WWII, but really the amount of American blood contributed to the war effort was comparably insignificant -- especially compared to the Soviets. I had the only 45. Like clipped on the front of your backpack harness or belt, in a manner where it can quickly be retrieved and used. I prefer the .40 S&W. So what if they are on the opposite side of a wall? Weve got a dedicated section for the AR-15 here. or 44 Mag. This helps ensure its continued low cost and widespread availability. I carry a Sig P320 Compact in .45 ACP (I mainly carry .45 ACP) and 357 SIG. "the 9mm has evolved to the current power of the 45 acp" as if there have been no developments in the 45 acp and the 45 acp has stood still. Don't come here like an expert when you clearly base all of your knowledge on YouTube videos you've watched. Click below for a FREE LESSON! Yeah its not close because its way higher moron. ANYONE who says in a civilian encounter they can end it in 3 shots is either a psychopath, a liar, or never been in a SHTF scenario. 9mm vs. .45. When i saw people who were actually shot with it and survived I opted for the 40 S&W. = 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. That being said, every one raves about the FPS of the 9mm. which should I use a 9 mm or a .45? Enough to spawn sayings youll see all over forums (and t-shirts). Call me crazy but home defense SCREAMS for a good ole Mossberg cruiser with a nice laser sight and maybe a strong, blinding flashlight for perps' who go 'bump in the night' into your coffee table. While the answer to this is up to debate, one thing is certain: higher muzzle velocity does equal slower bullet drop. Aside from that, aren't they using the same bullet technology on .45 as they are on 9mm? This will likely require a head shot. When I shoot a Glock 19 defensively I am shooting a stream of 3-5 shots which land in roughly a 2 1/2" circle. But, to add to your argument, I read about an encounter a couple of years back where a large man broke into a house and tried to attack the lady of the house and her child. Thanks! If so, another one which should lead to enough blood pressure drop to lose consciousness. Yep. Drop to a knee which will angle your bullet trajectory upwards and if the rounds exit his body they should be travelling in a safe direction. But the data from all three sources tend to lean towards heavier bullets penetrating more than slower ones, and then tend to be more accurate.

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